NDOT Episode #59 W/ Jeremy Sanders

Join the NDOT Crew and our great friend Jeremy Sanders as we discuss leadership and resiliency.

Transcript

0:44

Welcome back. Episode 59. Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for tuning in, for listening, watching, whatever you're doing. We got some things to jump into before we get started with this episode. So we're going to fire right into them. As always, thank you to everybody. We talked about last episode about jumping on board with command. So huge thanks to them. Watch out for uh stuff from them. Should see us a little more active, should see some some cool things that uh are gonna be coming down. So awesome of that. Uh, if we didn't announce, because Brent and I couldn't remember or not, but you might be wondering because this will be the second episode of June, and that is right, we are going back to two episodes a month. So um, I know it's been asked about for a while. We were able to make some things work. So look forward to two episodes a month now, at least. I was still the option of doing some special episodes and stuff and got some things in the works, but uh that's what we're we're going back to. So pretty excited for that. Um, it was a good time when we first started, and now we're getting right back to it. So be be pretty cool. Uh as always, thank you to our uh other sponsors. You got Crew First Culture, which we'll talk with the man himself, uh Toxic Suppression, uh Taylor's Tins, and Job Town Graphics. We wouldn't be here with any of them. And huge thanks to all of you. Um, the other thing you guys may have seen, it would have been at this point, kind of last month or the end of May, uh, that we posted on social media was a link for a GoFundMe. Um, so we had a there's a firefighter in Wisconsin, uh kind of down uh south, kind of to the east of Brennan, but south of me, um, that uh experienced a significant accident on off their off-duty. Um involved in a motorcycle accident, led to them being flown, innovated, uh basically has a long, long road ahead of them. Um kind of had been reached out from some of the people that knew him down there, and so we asked them to uh kind of give us something that they wanted to talk about for Quinn. So I got a little message um kind of explaining who Quinn was, and we're hoping that that'll kind of help share some additional light, make you maybe want to share a little more, donate, whatever helps. Um, you know, we talk about all the time this brotherhood, this sisterhood, uh any little bit helps. So if you just even share it on Facebook, that's even better sometimes than uh an actual donation. So whatever you can do, spread the word uh to help this guy out. So I'll read uh remote set about him. So Quinn is a 33-year-old full-time firefighter EMT for the village of Waterford Fire Department. He was involved in a major motorcycle accident on the evening of May 23rd, 2026. He was flown via flight for life to Freytert Hospital, and he is currently being treated for several injuries, including a severe neck fracture. While writing this, it's unclear at the time what his quality of life will be for the future. With these things happening to our brothers and sisters in the fire service, we all often hear and talk about all the good they do for the community and the department. It's a blanket topic conversation that ends up blurring out who the individual is. But what makes Quinn stand out the most is his character. Quinn brings meaning to the phase built different. Quinn's the guy you call when you need help. Quinn's the guy who values the life of every single person he comes in contact with. Quinn's a guy who ends a conversation finding the good in every topic, and he's also the guy who notices the little things about people, moments, moments in the words left unsaid. Quinn's brain can't process not prioritizing those and needs, nor can he not process prioritizing those he cares about. Quinn is the best of us in humanity, an eat an innately good person. Sorry, that was a hard word for me. You can tell I didn't write, you can tell I didn't write this. Um, and now he doesn't need our help. And now he doesn't just need our help, he's a person most deserving of it. Please consider donating to or sharing his GoFundMe. Further information about his life and career can be found in the description. If you're unable to now, uh keep a lookout for future fundraiser information. He's gonna need a lot of help for this future, regardless of the outcome. I know at the time of recording this, so this is May 29th. So this is just about a month or just about a week after the incident, GoFundMe's been out for a little bit. Um, it's been doing really well. Um, like the like the post said, um it's gonna be unclear as to his quality of life, so it's unclear what he's really gonna need, but we know that nothing's cheap nowadays with that stuff, and he's gonna need not only just that monetary help, but um, anybody in Wisconsin, if you guys know people, if you got uh some time, I know there's things that we can always do to help out. So this will be a couple or this will be two weeks after uh this episode's airing. Um, but I'm sure there'll still be things that that can be done. So check out our page. Um, if it isn't that last post, we're gonna be posting it again uh shortly after we this episode airs. So check out all that stuff and please consider helping out Quinn. So thank you guys so much for listening to that. Um, and thank you guys all for for helping. Uh for those of you that already have and those that that will. So that being said, the man of the hour. Let's bring in the one, the only Jeremy Sanders. Jeremy, how's it going? It's going good. Thank you for having me on again. It's always I always enjoy sitting down and just kind of talking through whatever you guys got to throw at me. It's in it's uh it's always kind of a question mark, but we make it through. Absolutely. Thanks for coming on and thanks for all the support throughout the years. Uh, for those that don't know you, why don't you give an introduction about yourself? Yeah, so I have been with a uh department just north of Oklahoma City for coming up on 24 years. I'm currently at the uh position of driver. And you know, the last couple years have been tough, challenging, but now just within the past three months or so, I've really kind of let everything go and and just kind of enjoying uh almost uh a breath of air and hopefully looking forward to some more time in the fire service, you know, from here. But I created Crew First Culture back in, I believe, uh 2019, just really as a way to to share some of the passion that I had without getting myself in trouble at work, just to get get a couple more different outlets. But uh that's led to uh led to so many different life-changing things. You know, I I I never saw myself as somebody speaking in front of people. I never saw myself as a podcast host or or somebody that writes articles, but I I've done all of those things, you know, in the past few years. And so I I love sharing the uh the lessons that I've learned, the mistakes. I don't I don't I don't love sharing the the mistakes, but I feel like it's it's so important that it it does give those mistakes purpose and and the lessons that I've learned. And so that's kind of the key for me is is just transparency, vulnerability, just trying to help others learn from things that I've learned myself the hard way, and and just trying to to enjoy developing people. I mean, that's that's what I really really love to do, is just whatever I can do to to develop people. So it's about it. Yeah, we always love having you on. Um, and yes, for those that are wondering, he is wearing a new dog's old trick shirt like the rest of us. So that's a great question. Uh being uniform as I've done the memo. Not planned at all. Yep, yep. Or maybe it was, you'll never know. But no, thank you, Jeremy. The first question we got from you uh, what is the most important lesson that you have learned through your journey with resiliency? Man, that that's hard to pin down the most important thing. I mean, I could sit here for hours and tell you different lessons. I I think the most important thing is, and this is halfway joking, but it it is it's very true, I feel like, is if you if you pray for strength, if you pray for patience, if you pray for humility or wisdom or whatever, don't expect that to come in a package that you open up and and oh there it is, I have it now. Expect it to come in the the form of adversity that helps you to grow in those areas. And that is kind of a perspective that I've really have to maintain myself to kind of keep me grounded because that's that's exactly the type of person I am. I want I want to grow. I I want to I want my resilience to to build over time and and to to gain wisdom and and perspective and all these things. And so me asking for those things and praying for those things, I can't be upset when uh all of these these adversity just keeps coming because that's exactly what is going on, is it is teaching me exactly what I asked for. And so I think that is definitely something that I've learned to almost kind of keep me humble and and keep me grounded in in reality of of just if that's who I truly want to be, if if the best version of myself is is who I truly want to work towards, then I can't I can't be upset when these things that are refining me as I go through them are happening, because that's exactly where it's taken me. And so that that's the biggest thing that uh probably um something else that I would love to to just mention because you know resilience is such a such a big thing for me now, especially you know, within the past two or three years, is uh you you can't do it alone. You you absolutely cannot do it alone. You you're gonna be overwhelmed, you're going to be you're not gonna be able to handle some things if you just continue to do things on your own. I've I've tried to do that in the past. You know, my early adulthood and all the challenges that that I went through at that time, you know, I was in the fire service and I never said a word about any of it. You know, all the stuff that I was dealing with at home, wearing me down, just completely emotionally exhausting me and and physically exhausting me. And then I show up to work, not say a word to anybody, but I'm sure everybody could tell that either something was going on or or I just I didn't have what I should have to give to the job. And so it it just happened by accident, but one day, you know, I I just shared some things with a a close friend of mine that I was working with at the station, and man, it was it was like a a turning a corner in my life event. You know, he changed, he turned around and shared some things that he had been going through that hadn't been that he hadn't shared with anybody. And just from that moment on, I just I realized that I I don't I don't care what people think about me with you know what I'm going through, what what I feel like is a challenge, maybe they don't. I don't I just I don't care. But if I don't share these things, then I could possibly be robbing somebody else of something they need to hear to to help them to be strong enough to keep going. And that you know, at that moment it just it it really gave those challenges and and that adversity and that pain, it gave it purpose, and it's almost like it helped me to be okay with all of it. And so that's just kind of something that I've I've tried to continue, you know, since then is no, I'm not gonna just spill my guts to anybody anywhere anytime, but if if the situation arises that I feel like either I just feel like something I need to say, or if something I hear is leading into something that that I may may have to share, then I I need to do it. And that's that's been a a really good lesson for me to to give that that pain and the the purpose that it needs so that I didn't go through it for nothing. I I went through it for growth for myself and and lots of other little things, but also I went through it so that I can use it to help others. And so those no, all of those things I think are are the biggest lessons for me. And it's it's lessons that help me understand it's okay, it's okay to struggle, it's okay to go through things that you don't think are fair or you don't feel like you you deserve it. That that shouldn't even be in your vocabulary because it's not about that. It's it's about it's about the path, it's not about you know the challenges that are uh that you're facing right now, it's about the path ahead of you. So that's that's the long version. I like it. I like it. Um next one we have is what does it mean to be a leader? It means that you are taking on a tremendous responsibility. I think a lot of people view leadership as excuse me as a way to get people to look up to you or or as a way to enhance your reputation or a lot of surface things that it's just a shame that you know that's where you top out at your view of leadership. For me, you know, I I've honestly I've always been interested, interested in leadership. I've just been thinking through a lot of these things here lately anyway. It's funny that you kind of are asking some of the things that I've been thinking through. But just back to youth sports, you know, I I wasn't specifically thinking, man, I I want to be the leader of this team, but I just enjoyed kind of you know what entailed leading and and being kind of a voice and and all that. And and it's just increasingly been more passionate for me, you know, through the years, especially since you know coming onto the fire department and you know, experiencing time as a station officer where you're a formal leader, which you know is a completely different level of responsibility. But it was in that time that uh it it kind of went from a just a passion of mine and uh something I really loved to something that I could feel. I mean, I I could literally feel the weight of that responsibility, and it's not a bad thing. I I think it was a very good thing to be able to feel it because you're responsible, and I I guess just to give a little context to the kind of that time period, I was taking on a new crew member who was right out of the academy. So this is the first time that I ever had anybody straight out of the academy onto my crew. And with some discussions from some other people that I'm really close to, they kind of helped me realize that man, this is this is a lot, this is about a lot more than just making sure your crew is happy and and making sure you guys your guys don't get in trouble, you know what I mean? And and that's kind of the the surface level leader that I was at the time. I I thought I was doing a pretty good job as a station officer, but honestly, I I was just I felt that way because my crew got along well. We we never had any issues on scene, you know. We we handled things, maybe not as good as we should, but we handled things. There there just there wasn't anything to to say, hey, you need to do better until then. And I realized I am responsible for this person's uh career path. If if I continue on the the leadership path that I'm on with him, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna prepare him for anything. He he's just going to be average whenever the time comes that he leaves me. Or I can completely change my opinion of my responsibilities and take ownership like I should of his career path and put him in the best possible place that I can in order for him to succeed in the future. And that's kind of when man, a lot of things changed for me right then, a lot of things, and and I started really just taking on that responsibility in a completely new way. And and not only did it help me to do better as far as getting the my people prepared, but it also taught me that I I can't lean on other people to to train my younger crew members. But what what happens if they're gone for a while? What happens if they get hurt? Nobody's gonna learn anything for a while. So it it also taught me that I need to be competent in their jobs as well. I mean, I I've done it in the past, but I hadn't been a firefighter in a long time. So rusty and and behind were you know the the safe ways of saying, you know, where my skill level was at the time. So it was it was really cool to be able to put all those things together, start working on my competencies, not only as a new officer and and all the things that I had to learn, you know, in that that realm, but also almost relearning everything firefighters need to do so that I am able to teach the people below me. And I think I think that that is something that I I hate putting generality generalities on the entire fire service, but I just feel like there's a lot of departments out there that that are struggling in the area of development, whether it's officer development or just any any level personal personnel development. And so being able to gain control of that, you know what we we took on the the culture where we we built a culture around we're not dependent on the training department to make us or take us to our potential, we are taking on that responsibility ourselves. We are responsible for getting ourselves to the level that we should be and taking ourselves even beyond that. And and I don't I don't say that in a mean way against the training department. Uh if if there are things that came down from the training division, then that's great, that's helpful. What I'm saying is we aren't. completely dependent on them so if they don't send anything out for a while we we are still doing stuff and just kind of uh the leadership that i learned to to kind of grab a hold of and and hopefully pass on to those below me is we just kind of started taking the mindset that the the the standards the the organizational standards don't really matter the the minimum standards definitely don't matter because we're beyond that we we are setting our own standards and so those those other standards they don't matter and so that's you know all all of those things it it's just it just goes back to that responsibility you know i i i think that there are a lot of really good leaders out there just like i was that are doing a good job of maintaining you know a a a good environment for their people maintaining a crew that shows up and and gets the job done you know whether that's the best or or you know whatever i there's just a lot of people out there and and just like me you don't know there's more to it until your eyes are open to it and so that's that's the one thing that I would love to pass on to anybody especially you know your your newer formal leaders but even your informal leaders you know just just opening your eyes to there's so much more than just the surface level of you know kind of taking people in your whatever under your wings and and hoping that they follow you you know in a good direction it it just goes so much deeper than that so that's again and that that's the the long version of of what I think leadership is a lot of good a lot of good lessons in what you said about taking stuff beyond the service level actually thinking about the deeper level stuff um well so go ahead I'm sorry no you're good even if we're well I guess I'm flipping around on on you guys and I cut you off again sorry but uh what what do you feel like you want as a leader for yourself who who is the person that you want leading you I think I would want someone that understands me as a person and understands my goals and responds you know goals and where I want this crew to take me and uh be out there training with us as the crew as they can I know a lot of leaders have a lot of paperwork and stuff like that but um my captain for example really good leader um he's out there training with his crew he knows everyone's strengths and weaknesses and uh we work everyone's strengths and weaknesses as a crew he allows the crew members their strengths they look he allows them to teach it and kind of instruct that strength and he's always there um so I I really look really admire his leadership style yeah yeah I think you you absolutely hit it on the head when you talked about being in it for more than just that face value stuff um with your talking about just guiding that trajectory because if you if you are a leader that just wants the title because then people will respect you with the title which is not true it's earned not given but and you just show up you just show up every day and you're like yep I'm lieutenant this is what we're doing today this is what like this is gonna go like that's not gonna do anyone any good but if you come into work and you're like kind of like Brennan's talking with with his captain and I've had some awesome officers in my uh career so far where it's like hey you know you got a guy that's working on their their acting engineer or they're gonna be testing for engineer you got a guy that's working on lieutenant you got a guy like and you let them start making some of those decisions or when there's an opportunity it's like hey you know what do you think about doing this like hey we got to do pump training today why don't you run the pump training you know doing doing things that will further their education instead of just worrying about your your career and oh yep I'm here now so I get to make all of the decisions so you know the rest everyone has to listen to me. Like that's that's absolutely where you gain respect as a leader and whereas the crew is going to be is going to thrive because then you're like you said you're not building just robots you know because leaders can get hurt too and you it's see it all the time if a leader if the entire crew is solely based on the leader they don't do anything until the leader says something then that leader gets hurt that leader gets sent out that crew is not going to function. Like it doesn't matter if an acting lieutenant captain like or an actual you know what someone that's in the role goes out there like they're not they're not going to be an efficient crew because they their pillar is gone and they don't know how to operate without that so yep also um passion I think passion a leader has a true passion in the job and a leadership role you can see that um if you don't see the passion for the job I think then you're not really listening to him or you know I mean um yeah you can see the the true passion that he has for his people in the job I think that goes a long way and that kind of creates the passion the younger um people on the crew and even the senior people in the crew. Oh yeah yeah well one one more thing before you move on because it's absolutely you caught me a minute you caught me after like I said uh I've been really thinking through some other things kind of preparing for some some deep questions so I've got a lot going on in my mind but I I think it's uh something that's important to share too when when you talk about leadership you kind of have two directions you got authority and influence Bryce you're kind of talking about those people that depend on that authority and we all know how well that goes and and it comes down to this right here you know authority yes it can it can make somebody do something right now it in the short term you can get results but you can't demand better morale you can't demand people that follow you you can't demand you definitely can't demand respect you can't demand people that want to do the job better than just a minimum level you there there's all these things that you can't demand you you can't have that authoritative mindset and and get anything like that done however you can have a positive influence on all of those so that's for me when breaking it down into as simple as I can it's about the influence you know what example are you giving to your people what you know are the the standards that you're holding yourself to not only just your your crew but yourself and you know just being that positive influence on everybody around you that's how things change and yeah it might take a while but that is how things change culture is going to improve morale is going to improve attitudes improve trust improves all of that so it that I just want to share that because it there are people that that think that authority is going to get them any anything that they need or or anywhere they want to go and it just it just isn't so they think it comes with the title yeah what advice would you give to someone who's experiencing burnout do some research and and I know that's a squirrel answer but I think I think that burnout can be disguising other things. But the more I learn about you know different things like moral injury and organizational betrayal and and and things like that the more I'm starting to realize that I wasn't really burned out I was just experiencing a lot of pain a lot of hurt I was you know I it's a it's a great time to talk about you know moral injury if if you are listening and you haven't heard of moral injury look it up look into it I promise you if you've been in the fire service very long there's a good chance you've experienced it and you may have been told or may have think it's PTSD or burnout or whatever else but it it it very well could be moral injury but moral injury is something that we experience because it it's the pain that we experience when reality doesn't match our values you know if if if I am expecting the world to go a certain way and the reality of the world is a completely different way then that affects me in a in a bad way you know it it could happen by doing things that we feel we shouldn't have done. It could happen by not doing things that we should have done it could happen by feeling betrayed by you know those especially those that that you're being led by or people that you have a response or a relationship with it it can be from like the loss of a title or a loss of a feeling of that you're doing any good anymore. There's so many different ways that moral injury can affect you and and I think that for me not every time but I think a lot of when I felt burned out and just checked out and almost done with the fire service I look back and think you know it it was because I was dealing with some moral injury issues and and they hurt you know the a moral injury is is basically an injury to your spirit i mean it it affects you deeply and for me without going into details I think the biggest thing with moral injury and and why it hurts so bad is it is inflicted where you are most passionate. For me leadership obviously you know is is where I'm most passionate. Am I perfect? Am I you know the the pillar of leadership no but I'm very passionate about it. And so my deepest wound that I ever experienced was targeted directly at my leadership abilities being told that that you aren't competent to lead you are a danger to people you are you know all these things and it's like if if those if those things happened in different areas of my life it probably wouldn't have hurt as as bad but when you tie so much of your life and and your emotions and everything into certain areas and those are the ones that are getting attacked it's it's hard it hurts especially if you throw betrayal on top of that it there is a a lot of things that you're gonna have to work through so that's that's the thing everybody I think in in a long career everybody experiences some level of burnout you know at least once I've I've gone through a lot of periods you know in 24 years you know the ups and downs it it also helps to have be a part of a group of people that are engaged whether that is a group of people within your department or if you don't have that start going to conferences start going to training start making friends outside of your department because that is something else that has probably more so I would say this is the the most important thing for me through my downtimes has been just kind of leaning on those outside of my organization to to keep going whether that's you know sharing stories back and forth and and starting to realize that man I'm not I'm not the only one dealing with this stuff. It's everywhere lots of people are dealing with this stuff. It's so that it helps you not feel so isolated and alone or just having somebody there to pick you up keep you keep you going carry you for a little bit and and know that you're going to be there to carry them you know in their down times and so that I think is is the most important piece to to stay engaged is to broaden your network get some good solid people that you can trust that you know when you need a pick me up they're gonna be there and and be willing to do the same for them but that's that's very important absolutely for sure what or who has been the most important fire service relationship you have made in your career this is a sucky question. I mean it's it's one of those it's one of those questions where it's like man there have been so many people help me in so many different areas that I almost don't want to answer it because I I feel like it's disrespectful to the people I don't say you know what I mean I mean yeah there there's been people that have pushed me to start speaking there's been people that have helped me in areas of writing articles there's there's been people that have helped me with the podcast there's been people that have helped me in in so many other ways and so I I will I will answer your question but I will answer it with the asterisk of saying there are so many people out there that have made it possible for me to be where I am at right now that it's it's almost unfair to them to not include them but but you know for the the fairness of you guys I will answer that and I will say that the reason I am comfortable answering is because this person hasn't just helped me in like the tangible areas of of you know becoming a better writer or figuring out the the podcasting host issues and and and things like that which are very very helpful and I'm very thankful for all that have helped in those areas but this person has changed my life because of the knowledge that he has shared with me and the the example he is and and just and and you know you know probably who I was going to say before you know I even started answering but it's got to be Rick George I mean it's gotta be I I feel a connection to that man more than probably any other person outside of my immediate family. And to be honest I would say that I've felt pretty close to that before I even met him yeah you know I I I say it all the time he's one of my favorite humans for sure but what's funny is I started thinking about it and I'm pretty sure I stated that on a podcast before I even met him you know just just watching you know the YouTube videos that he has out there reading his reading the book that that he and Dave and and Bob wrote and just kind of getting to to learn about him before I even knew him was was awesome. And then I met him virtually you know having him on as a guest on the podcast a few times and just really really started connecting more and more to him and you know had a few phone calls here and there and finally got to meet him a while back and it's I just he means a lot to me he he is an amazing person. I there's no way that anybody could ever quantify the the number of people that he has helped I mean the guy is constantly reaching out to to help people give them resources to to talk them through things and it's just amazing and uh so that thing I have something else I was going to say and I I completely forgot about it. But being brought on to the the cadre you know with you you guys went through the class I'm sure I'm sure you've mentioned it a bunch I've mentioned it a ton on my podcast just the impact that we see in people from eight o'clock on a Thursday morning to eight o'clock on a Friday morning there's different people walking out that walk than walked in and it is crazy to see that and oh he he is the foundation of that you know he's kind of passed the torch on now because you know he's he's done his his part and he he's ready to kind of step back but he's passed the torch on to some some amazing people that are going to keep that going but absolutely he you know I know you your uh your post for this episode uh I sent you a couple pictures of Rick and yeah I I got to hang out with Rick almost every day at FDIC and and that was my favorite time that was my favorite part of the the whole conference I just just enjoying that time with him and and talking and you know reconnecting and if if you haven't looked at the post go back and look at the post because it's probably easier than miss you might have missed you might have missed Rick. I had Dave Gillespie who is the co-author of the book with uh with Rick but he took a picture of me by my sign no as the instructor at FDIC like everybody does and Rick is head poking through the other side of it it's just it's just a special picture to me. You know it's just being goofy but I I love it. So go go back and and check that out because it's it's hilarious. But that's who I gotta pick. Alright so we're gonna go do the uh kind of generic new generic questions that we kind of came up with um first one goes looking back uh what advice will you give yourself when you started man hold on get ready I mean I don't I don't know it's just I I I'm one of those people that I I don't want to ever think well I wish that wouldn't have happened or you know I I I would want to change anything I mean it all of the hardships both personally and and professionally I don't I don't ever look back on anything and and want to change it but I I would definitely say that you have got a long road ahead of you but what you are going to become because of that road is is going to be so far from who you are today you wouldn't recognize them but that's exactly what you want you you don't want to be the same person 10 years from now 20 years from now 24 years from now I I am I I've got so far to go still but I am very proud of you know the the person that I've been able to challenge myself into becoming and and i'm just i'm thankful that you know i i still have a long ways to go because it's exciting but that that would be the biggest thing is you're it's there are gonna be times it sucks there are gonna be times when you don't know if you can go another minute there are gonna be times when you are completely broken and feel like you will never be able to put yourself back together but you will and you have to you have to keep going you have to continue on the path the path is already laid out it doesn't matter if you want to be there or not you have to keep going on that path and and just be okay with where it leads you be okay with with what happens because once you get through a certain challenge or adversity sometimes you you are blessed enough to be able to see actually see the growth or or see the the good things that came from it sometimes you don't you know sometimes you get through something you're like well I I don't know what the heck that was for but I guess it was for something but it's it's really cool to be able to see those times that things become clear and you're like man I I did not want to have to do that I'm so thankful it's over but I would not be able to deal with my next challenge if it wasn't for that last one and so that's really really it just just keep pushing through it's it's not gonna be easy but it's gonna be worth it absolutely all right uh we are gonna move on to the closing questions that we have as I think this one's gonna have some in-depth to it uh from our last guest and then of course as you know you got to come up with a question for our next guest so uh the question that you got from our last guest who is Mike Thorough who is a Milwaukee firefighter from in Wisconsin and he's actually running for Congress right now. If you didn't check out that episode be sure to check that out especially if you're in the fifth district Mike's some awesome stuff um but his question is how can we lean on our family members who don't see what we do and bridge the gap to build our resiliency without bringing them into that you know world I think I think there can be transparency without without sharing too much and I'm I'm kind of just trying to think through how I'm saying this as I'm as I'm saying it but you know we can go home and and we can say I had a hard day oh I I I saw some things that I wish I didn't have to see some some outcomes didn't didn't go as we wish they would and depending on you know your spouse it's just the how how much detail can they handle I I have a a nurse as a wife which seems like lots of firefighters are married to nurses if if that's the case you can be a lot more transparent you can be you know you can go more into details if that's what you want to do but I think I think you don't have to and and for me even having a nurse as a wife that I feel like I don't really feel like there's anything that I could just say to her that would mortify her or traumatize her but I just don't I just don't get anything out of sharing it myself. So I I am I am more uh adapt to the kind of the just the the generalities of had a had a call with a kid and and it didn't go well and I it was just it was a hard day. And that's it. And I think I think that's the important part is just sharing what you're feeling. The details of of why or or what has led you to that I I don't think are important unless you just need to to get that off. Yeah. To me it it's the it's the details of of what is hurting what is challenging what is kind of in your way right now of being the person you probably should be at home and and just having you know having honest communication with your partner about what they can handle. I think you know it maybe that's where it needs to start is is getting a true idea of of what they are comfortable hearing before you you truly need you know to share that if if you have a spouse that is very you know very sensitive to that stuff then it would be nice to know before you you need to share something. And in those cases you know it you gotta kind of maybe give a little bit maybe maybe I don't share as much and maybe she or or he whatever it tries to you know go a little bit farther than they're comfortable with whatever it is but it's just clear communication transparency and and being honest about how you feel and I think another big piece of this and this goes to us being transparent with ourselves is don't overuse it. I definitely feel like there have been times where it's like I'm just tired nothing emotionally is wrong with me. Yeah I'm I just I just want to go lay down for a little bit don't don't falsely use the the emotional stuff in those times you know like just had a hard night or I want to go you know rest for a little bit or it just be honest i i'm just tired you know nothing nothing's going on nothing was really anything yesterday but I I just need to to rest a little bit I think that that goes a long way because if you are somebody that just constantly uses the the you know the the things that you see or the things you've been through for not only when they really happen but really as excuses for other times that you just want to be left alone then it over time it's gonna lose its its meaning and it's not going to be authentic. So yeah absolutely yeah that's that's a great point that's a great point absolutely um so the next part we have in the final closing section is uh for you to come up with a question for your guest or our next guest and that guest is Adam Yarsh um it's kind of as I'm thinking about it with the how we open this we talked about um Quinn who's going through a a situation right now um Adam went through a very similar one uh about a year and a half ago he was involved in an accident off duty um that's left him paralyzed from the waist down um and so he came to our last old-fashioned fools meeting and kind of talked about his journey uh a lot of spiritual uh stuff in it but also just really resiliency is what it came down to um so he's our next guest and uh it's up to you to come up with a question that we're gonna ask him gotcha we aren't able to hear you right now Jeremy happened again can you hear that we go welcome back welcome back I don't know uh question for you before I give you that question are you going to ask him the same questions as you did me like the resiliency and things like that um we are not so we'll have the same kind of four uh four questions we only got to uh one of the new questions today but that's totally fine um so we'll have uh a little bit of different questions ask him but we'll definitely keep some along the similar line okay I I would say and and I would love to hear you know I I just I love I love seeing people use their story to help others and so I would ask him how he has found that he can use his story to make a positive impact on others and and how he plans on continuing that I think that would be really interesting to kind of hear what he has has learned and and and how he has kind of used those challenges to help others. Absolutely yeah I won't uh I won't steal his thunder but I know he's got some some awesome plans of how to utilize that so uh it'll be pretty cool to to have him on um when this episode comes out it'll be June so his episode will either be just before or right after firemanship. Um so I'll use this as a little one to shout him out if you're going down to fireman show uh he is going to be presenting down there last I talked to him. So it's gonna be a little bit of a trial run while it's on the podcast with us because I'll be recording before it but uh if you're if you're gonna be down there go and uh make sure any if anybody is interested go check them out uh hear from them so um but yeah that's all the questions we have for you so this last section uh hasn't changed where it's just uh kind of the wrap up the kitchen table we call it uh if there's anything that that you want to share uh any any other or things you want to talk about a little bit and and get on uh floor is yours no i i think we talked about some some pretty pretty good stuff i mean i i really enjoy kind of being able to get a little deeper into some things like the that that you asked and and my opinion on stuff uh it was it was fun i the only thing that i have coming up right now is i will be speaking at the safer conference and that's in raley north carolina in august i don't know the exact date but if you're up that way please come by and and see me and uh i'll be putting in for some other conferences here pretty soon so hopefully there'll be more in the future but just just trying to trying to kind of get back into the swing of things hopefully hopefully things can open up and and i'm able to do more than i have here in the past couple years and just looking forward to to sharing my story and and meeting people that have a great story themselves so that's it awesome absolutely well thank you as always for coming on i know we we make sure we thank uh crew for his culture and most of our listeners know that that that's you as well but or that you're the you're the man behind the the scenes but we uh we can't thank you enough for you know really getting us to this point i mean you're the one that gave us the the first start um kind of saw the first the hope in it and now here we are almost 60 episodes later so crazy yep thank you so much as always and uh yeah thanks for taking some time to share some awesome stuff to dive into some great leadership and as always we always say we always tell people to check him out but uh if you guys want to hear more check out Jeremy check out crew first culture he's got his own podcast he's got his own stuff like he says he's teaching as well so you'll be able to find him anywhere and don't uh don't do what we did when we first met him and be scared to walk up to him because uh he he's not he's not scary he doesn't have the the scary mustache anymore either as much as I do I want it back uh but thanks for coming on Jeremy thank you everybody for listening and uh as always don't be a shit bag thanks Jeremy for coming on don't be a jet bag see you guys