NDOT Episode #56 W/ Jarrod Sergi

Join the NDOT Crew and Jarrod Sergi as we discuss leadership and inspiration

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Welcome back.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Episode 55.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Some chip bags, yeah. 55. Just another milestone. Seems like it's just it's only it's like the TV remote. It's only the five and tens that it feels like episodes, you know. That's the that's the l the milestones that you have. Can't have the volume and anything other than five, ten or an even numbers, shirt like that. But uh thanks everybody for tuning in for watching. Uh we can't thank everybody enough for all the the support. Um just everything that's been going on throughout the years. So uh it's been great. We have some awesome guests that we have lined up for the rest of the year, they're really excited for. Uh, we can't do anything without our sponsors. So huge thank you to Taylor Stins, uh, Crew First Culture, Job Town Graphics, Toxic Suppression. Uh, give all those guys some support if you can. They've been some awesome help. And uh, without further ado, I mean, I think we'll we'll bring in our guest here, huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Hey Jared, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Hey, what's up, guys? Not much. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Thank you for coming on. Why don't you uh go ahead and give a quick introduction about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yeah, no problem, man. So again, my name's Jared Sergi. Uh, I'm currently battalion chief over here in Norfolk, Virginia. So Norfolk is a small east coast city right there in the uh in the mid-Atlantic. I've been there for just over 20 years. Before that, I um I joined the Navy. I used to live in Southern California, joined the Navy, spent just under six years there, and that's how I actually ended up in Norfolk. And I was getting out of the Navy, I started testing around a bunch of fire departments. Norfolk was the first one that grabbed me, so that's where I've been ever since. So I've held a bunch of different assignments, obviously, throughout my the course of my career, both administrative and operations positions. So I'm currently the logistics chief. I've been there for I guess it's about six months now, so far. So very different for me, right? Uh, nobody joins the fire department and says, you know what? I can't wait to get into procurement and budget and all that kind of stuff and facilities and project management, but I'm learning a lot, so that's really good. I got some good people in there with me. So it's it's been a pretty good assignment for me so far. So that's me.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Cool. Thank you very much for coming on. And like I said, we'll kind of jump into everything. So stepping back to uh your last role where you're in the battalion chief, um, from that perspective, what is the most common mistakes that you see company company officers make on the fire ground?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Ooh, that's good. So probably some of the most common mistakes I see people uh or company officers make. One, I'll take it down to the tactical level first, right? So when they step off the truck, they just simply don't provide clear direction. Uh they don't they don't paint a picture of what's going on, they don't name or describe the occupancy type of the building, because as you all know, occupancy dictates tactics, right? So they do a poor job of just doing a uh, I say size up, they're their brief on-scene report, right? So they they fail to paint that picture, and then ultimately they just fail to provide direction and and give direction to the companies that they lead. Uh, there's a certain expectation in my mind, and in my world, where a company officer, when they step off the rig, uh they're they're competent, they're capable, they know how to make good decisions, they know how to do a good risk assessment, they know how to read fire behavior, read buildings and all those things. And a company officer, if they can't step off the truck and do those things, they're gonna make mistakes, right? They're gonna make poor decisions, they're gonna not read buildings, they're not gonna be able to lead their crew. Um, and then I think just a more broad thing, they going back to the decisions, you know, the mistakes. Sometimes they're too timid. They they feel like they have to mother may I with the incident commander. Um, and that can come from the boss, right? The boss might make them do it or micromanage them a little bit. But um I think that's a couple of the mistakes that they make is again, mother may I and the chief, you know, please can I do this or can I do this? Or do you want us to do this? Like if it needs to be done, you know, ask for uh permission to do it and then do it. Um, and then paint that picture again when um when you're getting on scene. So that's the fire ground stuff. Um as far as most common mistakes in the firehouse, you know, getting off the fire ground a little bit, I would say uh not checking their ego and and listening to their folks, you know, understanding that you're not always gonna have the right answers and that sometimes you just need to sit back and shut up and listen to the firefighters that are that are in your station and on your crew. And sometimes they have the best ideas and you're not always the smartest person in the room. So, you know, we like to give advice, especially to new people, to kind of sit back and be quiet and keep your ears open and your mouth shut, kind of a thing. And I I know where that comes from, but um, I think sometimes company officers need to do the same thing, right? Um, they need to sit back, they need to open their ears, they need to listen to their crew and realize they're not the smartest person in the room.

unknown 5:40

Yeah, like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Because that's certainly me. I've I've made the mistakes. So trust me, I this comes from a place of failure as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, that's what you learn. That's where we talk every time.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Awesome. What are some effective ways officers can train their crews beyond the typical check the box drills?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

So effective ways that they can train their crew. Uh so I'll dive into a couple things and then I'll I hope I'll circle back to the question, but you guys will keep me on track, I'm sure. So I talk about three things when company officers do training, right? Because, like I said, a lot of times it's the check the box, right? Whether it's, oh, we've missed our mark this month, I gotta, I gotta put something together, it's gonna be poor, right? Or the training center says I need to get something done, it's likely gonna be poor if if if their heart's nodded in, if there's no purpose behind it. Yeah, so the main thing is it goes into your planning, your preparation, and your delivery. So I'll talk about that for just a little bit, right? As a company officer, you know, one of the things that I used to do, and hopefully this is tangible takeaways, people can can walk away with. I used to print up one of those free like internet calendars, you know, and I would highlight my shift days, and I would sit down there with the other officers if I had the other officers in the stations with me. Um, and we would sit and I would ask them a very clear question what are our priorities over the next six to eight weeks and what do we need to get done? And you know, ideas are gonna come up, right? We need to go stretch lines, we need to go cut up on cars, uh, we need to do some EMS training, we need to do whatever. And we would pepper that little calendar, right? So now we have a plan, right? We know on this date we're performing this drill or this training or whatever, right? So the planning part, check, right? Now we can prepare, which means, hey, I have on the calendar here that we're gonna go over and do primary searches or searches at this at the burn building, whatever, right? Well, am I gonna need mannequins? Am I gonna need smoke? Am I gonna need this, that, or the other? Are there required structures that came up in my department? I know that's all, you know, depending on where you work, you might not get access to those all the time. But um, but because I have that preparation piece and I've I planned, I prepared, I got all the equipment, the resources, that already is trending in the right way to make that training relatable, realistic, practical, put together, organized, right? Where people are gonna be drawn to do it as opposed to firefighters are we're not idiots, right? They're gonna know when they show up to a drill or training exercise that somebody's just this is just done kind of half-assed. Um, and then the last part is your delivery, right? You know, be enthusiastic, be a team player, uh, being okay to fail, making sure that you are there to teach people and train them so they can learn a skill or a task or a function, not to be condescending, not to poke fun at them, not to make them demonstrate failure. So I think all those things are important as a company officer. Um, so going back to the question, I think a little bit, um, all that groundwork is important, but for me, get out of the firehouse as much as possible. Like there is so much value in just getting out in your district, and there's so many ways that you can do it. You talk about effective ways to have training as a company officer in a station. Go out and park your rig on a block and walk up and down the block. Look at buildings, look at doors, walk behind commercial structures and talk about the different locks. You know, get out in your districts and stretch hose. You know, yes, can you stretch hose to the back of the bay door? Yeah, you're eventually gonna nail that, right? But get out in your districts, right? Go to vacant properties. I used to, I used to drive around on Zillow and I would look at houses that were for sale. And I'd say, hey, this one's for sale. We pull right up on that, we'd stretch on it, right? We wouldn't do anything crazy. We're not trying to make entry or anything, but we'd stretch to the door, we'd stretch around back, we'd come up with little scenarios. Same thing on the the ladder company was assigned to a ladder. Like I could throw the ladder to the flagpole every morning, but I'm not saying there's value and depth perception, all those things, right? Of course there is, but you know, I've yet to go to firearm spot in a flagpole. Like, so get out and actually put your stick on real buildings, right? Work that depth perception is important. So don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm not saying people can't do those things, but if that's all you do, to me, that would be an issue, right? Get that truck out there, put it on buildings, like practice. So that is going to keep people engaged when you put them in realistic scenarios. So uh that is the the, I guess, the the main answer to that question is if you want to be effective, plan, prepare, and have credible delivery of the training you're providing, and get your people out of the firehouse, get them in the district, walking around looking at forcible entry challenges, looking at challenges with your stretch, looking at challenges with your ladders, talking about building construction. You know, everybody's city looks different, but man, I used to park, uh I worked in the downtown district for many years, a large portion of my career. So it's a lot of interesting building stock, right? Old balloon frame, ordinary construction, old strip malls. We would just park and we would just talk buildings and construction and challenges and how's fire behave in these buildings. Like there is so much value in just getting out of the station and and putting your people in those realistic scenarios and just being a being an expert in the district around you. And I could tell you that, you know, just because you're stationed in a high-rise district doesn't make you a high-rise expert, right? Like it's the work, right? You got to get out, you got to get in the buildings, and you got to ask questions about fire protection systems and standpipes and flow and hydraulics and water supply and all those things. That is what is going to make you um truly own that district.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yeah, I like that. We do that kind of the same thing on our shift. So we we call it like the first five-minute drill. Uh so we take well, we have an engine and a truck, so it's nice for new operators to get out and actually place on real houses. Like where they're gonna place and set up. Oh, I had a lot of family have looping driveword too, so we just use their houses a ladder. Set the ladder, set the engine, hook a hydrant, and actually stretch a line to their own.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And you nailed it, man. Like the first five minutes, right? Like now, I guess another you know, answer that is like it doesn't have to be anything elaborate, right? Like as a company officer, it's like, oh, I gotta I'm gonna put my guys out for two hours or three hours. And you might do that, but train to an objective, right? Like, what do I want to accomplish in in this time slot? Like, I want my folks to know how to step off the truck, put a line in service, do a fast primary search, force a door. You know, if I can if we go through our reps and they're knocking it out of the park and we're done in 30 minutes, an hour, then we're done. Like, we might still play around if we have out of service time. Like, I get that, right? But there's so much value in just that that first five minutes. Like, hey, when we step off the truck, what do we need to accomplish? Because if you can handle things within the first five minutes, whether it's at the task level or at the command level, even like if you got the first five minutes going well, a lot of times the incident is going to go well, right? Like, so goes the actions of those first two companies, certainly the first company goes the incident, right? And those quick five-minute drills getting those reps are so important.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

I think another good training is one of the fire alarms, actually, set your rigs and set the scene up and just feel real quick in a lot of us. Absolutely. No, just knowing a bullshit fire alarm, but we tried like, oh, it's a fire alarm, let's run, let's do a full scenario right there. Yeah, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yep, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Absolutely. You never know when that fire alarm turns into one. I mean, isn't it just two two weeks ago or so that there was like a grab made from an automatic aid or an automatic alarm? Okay. Um I don't know if Brennan, if you can catch me where where that was, but I remember scrolling it through Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

But oh interesting.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

It's just it I mean, it's not a new thing either. It happens all the time. Like maybe not necessarily the not necessarily the grab, but it's just the oh, this was an auto alarm. I know there was another one where the caller said the fire was out, and they were like, you know, no need to uh call they told the fire department they don't need to come anymore. And I I remember I I'll have to find the department because I remember seeing their picture, their first arrival pictures. There's fire shooting out of the bedroom window. Like just just stuff like that where it's like you know, you can't really trust it.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

It's caught me. I can't, it's been a while, um, but it's caught me as a caught me one time. I was a I was a lieutenant uh on a ladder company caught me. Uh not that we were complacent going in. I mean, that's a whole story. This I can get in the whole story, but ultimately what happened was this college campus and this kid was uh smoking and burning stuff in his room. He took wet towels and like covered the door, he covered the smoke detector, and of course I walk in there and I'm like, everything is set up to make me just drop my guard, right? Like I walk in, the cop's like, hey, you're good. The fire alarm's on the first floor of the storm, which never happens, right? It's like right around the corner. And you walk in, the room's clear. Ultimately, the room, the the kid's room was so full of black smoke, and I almost walked away from that call. I almost was like, Hey, this alarm won't reset, just get it fixed, or whatever. I mean, that could be freaking dead, but ultimately my operator was like, Hey man, something's something doesn't feel right. Like these alarms always reset. And so luckily I went back in. But yeah, that does happen. Those fire alarms, and it's like there is no worse feeling. Uh, and I will never be the guy. Um, where you know, you go to a fire alarm, and it's because you know fire prompts firepromp, we love to talk, right? It's like, man, you hear surgery men, they went on this fire alarm on whatever church street, and freaking knucklehead showed up, didn't have any of their stuff off, and that thing was blooming. It's like, nope, that's not gonna happen to me in my crew, you know. So absolutely, it's you just never know. You never know.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Was that a story in your book? I think it was in your book.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

The second one, uh, about the the college student. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. I think it wasn't your book that in there, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was shook up by that, man. I'm not gonna lie, like I remember opening that door, and I was like, oh, like all this nasty smoke poured out of there. I shut the door, I'm like, how the hell did I miss this? You know, and uh, you know, of course, the I was on the engine that night, so the ladder, I cleared the ladder, right? And you you know the story, but like the listeners, like I cleared the ladder, and I so I opened the door, I'm like, oh my god. So I shut it, and I'm literally running like red solo cup, like running to the sink, run into the room, run into the sink, run into the room, like throwing water on this. It wasn't a huge fire, it was like it was just like a dresser, it was kind of burning up the wall, nothing crazy. Uh, but it was just that nasty candle smoke, you know. And I'm like standing in there, like kind of beat myself up, like, how did I miss this? And um, and then all of a sudden I hear the kid snore, right? He's like, Oh, I was like, I'm looking around, like, oh my god, there's a kid in here. And I kind of made my way over to the bed and he's passed out. He's got a laptop open, you know, he's he's he's out. And uh man, I almost cleared that scene, and that kid, I mean, he'd have been dead. Yeah, holy shit. But yeah, and it was crazy. My operator, he um, you know, we're going to reset the alarm. No, no reset, no reset, no reset, right? And I and there's a lesson here, I'll I'll throw in there, but I'm trying to reset it, and I'm telling the cop, you know, hey, you're gonna have to get somebody here to check this alarm out. I don't know what's going on with it. And we're starting to do the paperwork, I think, even for like a little fire watch. And my my operator, he's like, you know, we come here all the time for fire alarms. I mean, we were we're over there every day, right? He's like, these things always reset. They always reset. I'm like, damn, you know what? You're right. And that's what made me go back and actually look in the individual rooms because there were kids in there. I I walked in, I left this part out. Like, I walked in like, hey guys, everything's good. They're like, Yeah, but they didn't realize their roommate was home in their burning door closed and all that kind of stuff. So I'm telling you, ever since then, when every time I went to an automatic fire alarm, you know, when a you know the detector's active, you see that little red light, right? Yeah, I'm telling you, everyone I went after that, like, I think we're good. I think we're good. I'm like, I'm finding that damn I'm finding a damn detector that's litting up. Like, I'm like, oh, all right, red light, go ahead and reset it. All right, red light's gone. Like, now we can leave. Yeah, yeah, that one got me. That's crazy, too. Yeah, it was wild.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Uh obviously, you've got a true passion for leadership as well. Where did you discover this passion?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

That's a good question. I um I don't really know where it began. I think it started when I was in the military, right? So I, you know, growing up, I was kind of a I mean, I was a good kid, but I didn't have a lot of direction. You know, I my brothers, I grew up with some brothers, we kind of split at a young age with divorce, and then I went to high school. And like, what does my mom know? I'm not living with her, I'm just gonna live with my friends. So I lived with like my friends for the last couple years in high school, and so I just didn't really have a whole lot of direction. I didn't have like a good father figure, right? Like, I just didn't have a lot of those things. I joined the military, and you know, in the military, they demand leadership of you, right? So here I fall into this, this um dynamic of this environment where I have people holding me accountable, I have people teaching me, I have people mentoring me, right, coaching me, you know, like all these things. And I just I saw the value in that I really I really was drawn to my mentors early in the military that were that were folks that were willing to take time out of their day to train and to mentor others. And I saw the value in good leadership, I saw what it did to me, uh, and I said, Well, I want to do that for other people. So I really just modeled the behavior of those early mentors that I had in the in the military, and I still keep in touch with a lot of those folks today. And so as I kind of climbed the ranks, I ended up now. It was my turn, right? I had my own crew, I had my shop, uh, which was anywhere between five to seven guys. And then, you know, right before I got out, I had about 20 people that I um that I supervised, right? And so I was like, man, I like this, I like this leadership thing. I like I like seeing uh you know people change, and I like seeing people develop, and I like seeing the light bulb come on for people. And I just in my job in the Navy, I was a damaged controlman, which um you know teaches everybody on the ship firefighting. So I was just kind of forced. Like this was my job at 18 years old was to teach 100, 200, 800 crew members on a ship how to how to put out fires and how to communicate and and all those things. And I really, really liked it. So I think that's kind of where it started for me. And of course, I go into the fire department and I'm very lucky growing up in the fire department. I the the officers and the firefighters that I had my first year and then on into my first five, six, seven years, I mean, they really shaped my outlook of the fire service. They really contributed to the leadership style that I was already kind of developing. And, you know, when I really got passionate about, especially teaching leadership, you know, when I left my crew, like my crew, the the guys that helped, you know, raise me in the fire department, I would look around even my own organization and other people that maybe even I came in the academy with, and I would see that they didn't have that same path that I did, right? Like I had a captain who was I love the guy to death. Like he is, he's awesome. He he was hard on us, like he he kept us moving. He wasn't afraid to show us tough love and get on our ass when he need when he needed to, but he truly cared about just making us good firefighters. Like he just wanted you to be good at the job. Like, if you're gonna show up to the firehouse, you better know how to stretch lines, force doors, do searches, vent roofs. Like he wanted you to be good at the job. And so when I left that environment, I'd look around and I'm like, man, how unfair is that for other people? Like, that should be everybody's normal, the normal that I had. Like the guidance, the direction, the leadership, the mentorship that people gave to me as a as an 18 year old kid in the military, and then you know, a 23 year old new firefighter. Like, that's not fair, right? Everybody should have that. And that's why I really got passionate about leadership and and tried to spread a message that this is what's necessary in our fire department. And especially at the the company level that that they need to take an active role in um you know the the morale the the professional development uh of their of their members and people that don't take that job seriously and and don't invest in their membership and don't train them to be good firefighters, it um it drives me crazy. But uh but that's really why I got passionate about it because I wanted I wanted to help others create that environment for their folks. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well that's I mean it's a great answer, and I think that's gonna roll right into this next one because I know you just mentioned it as you were talking about leadership, because I think a lot of people see it hand in hand. Um and it absolutely has this part. What is the most enjoyable part of instructing to you then?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Okay. Um the most enjoyable part of instructing, I would say, is, and I think I probably already mentioned it, is like the light bulb, right? Like seeing somebody who otherwise maybe didn't have the confidence, the competence, even, to all of a sudden gain that skill and and feel comfortable in executing that skill to the point where they can go and and it's reproducible. Um, for me, that's what I like about teaching. Whether I'm teaching a class uh about engine company work and hose and nozzles, or I'm standing in front of a class giving a lecture on leadership, and people are like, oh yeah, like that's me, or I can try that, or I'm gonna give this a shot. Um, so just seeing people feed off, you know, I try to be a very energetic and passionate instructor, and I think that helps. And people feed off that stuff, right? Like you guys know that. Like people feed off that stuff, and like I get excited, and I've seen them get excited, and I get more excited. You know, it's like we just sit there and we feed off each other. Um, but that is really why I do it. Um, is I like to see people gain that confidence in their abilities. You know, I say in my class when I teach, right? Like, I don't believe now I'm a realist, right? There's there's people that that join the fire department that shouldn't be in the fire department. There's people that are selfish, they're very one-sided, they they are not here to be team players, they could care less if they go to another fire, they hide in the shadows, they're sitting in the hallways not doing any work at fire. Like those people are around. I get that, and I I understand that. But I think by and large, when when people graduate from the fire academy and they put their right hand in the air in front of their friends and their family and they get their shiny new badge, they're not thinking to themselves that you know, I can't wait to get out there and suck, you know. Um, people don't want to suck. Uh, you might think someone sucks, and I might think someone sucks. Like, people don't want to suck. I do believe that. Um, so you know, if you as an officer, as a firefighter, whoever you are, an instructor, if you have that ability to give people those skills, I think firefighters want to know what the hell they're doing. I think most firefighters want to be led. Um I I think most firefighters, when the brass hits, they want to be able to demonstrate to their peers that they know what the hell they're doing. And so if you can provide somebody those skills and that level of competency, I mean that is fundamentally your responsibility as a company company officer, especially, is to train and develop people. And that's what I gain from teaching. That's what I gain from helping people is to just, you know, I'm helping them develop a set of skills, or maybe I'm helping them develop their own type of leadership style. Um, it's just giving them some valuable information that will make them better firefighters, and that's all I want, right? Like I just want people to be better firefighters, not only for themselves, but for the people they're riding the truck next to. Because I think they have a responsibility not only to themselves as individuals, but I think they have a responsibility and they owe it to the person that's riding the jump seat next to them to make sure that they know what the hell they're doing.

unknown 26:08

Like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, that is the personalized questions that we have for you. So next we have our more generic ones that we asked most of our guests as we go through, and Brennan's got those for you.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Right on.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

All right. First one, you can take this however you want to take it. Uh, but it is why are we here?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

That's a good question. All right, so why are we here? I think fundamentally it goes back to everybody's mission. Uh, I would imagine that if you looked at most fire departments, their mission statement is around, you know, probably around the same thing, right? To police got it easy. Like, I think everywhere you go, the police are protect and serve, right? It's like, yeah, how'd we not get something that easy to remember? But um, but but yeah, it goes back to that, right? Like you exist as a fire department, as a firefighter, to to provide a service, and that service is in uh the form of saving people's lives and saving people's property. So I think that is ultimately why we exist, right? Um the fire department over the years has evolved. The fire department over the years has taken on extra responsibility, I think sometimes to a fault. Uh, I think the fire department is getting a little bit of mission creep every now and then. I mean, depending on the agency, not everyone, I'm not here to paint a broad brush, but I think there are some fire departments that that forget their fire departments. You know, I read through an annual report of a fire department recently that had nothing fire related in it. It looked like an administrative department. And I'm not here to say those things aren't important. So please, for the listeners, like don't hear what I'm not saying. Like those things are important, right? Like your fire marshal's office is important, your training division is important, your logistics department is important, like those things are important, like they help, they help move the department, but there's nothing more important than operations. Like, and your fire department exists to put out fires, to save people's lives and property, to provide excellent medical care. That's why you exist. And I'm reading this annual report. Like, does this fire department do this? Because a guy like me reading that would also ask the question is that important to this organization? Like, I want to see things like run numbers. I want to see things like property value we've saved. I want to see things like how many fires we went to. I like I want to see all those things, right? Like, yeah, isn't this a fire department? So there is that mission creep. But ultimately, why we are here is is just that to protect the public, to to save their lives from fire, from medical emergencies. And because we know why we exist, like that should drive all of our programs, right? Or at least most of them. Like, you know, well, why do I need to know how to stretch a hose? Uh any monkey can stretch a hose. I've heard that a thousand times. I'm like, I've seen you stretch hose and I don't know about that. You know, like it all goes back to that. Like those things matter. Stretching a hose line the right way in a fast, efficient way matters. Like doing a search the right way matters. Doing a proper assessment on a trauma victim matters. You know, all of those things go back to your mission. Uh, so the question of why we are here, it's we're reminded every day when we go to the grocery store, when we we see members of the public, like that is the job that you asked for. You you asked for a life of service when you joined the fire department. And I think sometimes we forget that we can we can get a little bit entitled as firefighters, and we can get a little self-righteous every now and then. And and I'm not saying I I've I've probably had those thoughts too, just like anybody else. And I I've had the right people keep me on course, you know, but but that's fundamentally why we exist to save people's lives and property and to show up and and not be not look like a bunch of idiots getting off a clown car, but you know, looking like vars like the varsity squad stepping off the trucks.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

I like that answer. Absolutely. Uh next one. What trains slash conferences have been your favorite to attend?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Oh man, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

There's so many companies.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

There is a lot of great ones, man. Gosh, conferences. Uh well, I'm gonna stay away from I'm gonna stay away from the big ones. I liked, you know, when I and I only went for a couple years. I don't even know if they they're gonna do anymore. Um The Art of Firemanship, and it's moved around a little bit, but they used to have it up in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. That was awesome. I really, really liked that one. I actually really liked the journal that they did along with it, the Art of Firemanship Journal. Have you guys do you guys remember that one? Oh my god, it was awesome. So Brian Bassinelli, I'm gonna I'm gonna call him out. He used to put that, he used to put that publication together. Man, it was so good. Um, so that is one that I really like. Um I I tell you what, man, I get a good vibe from a lot of the South Carolina conferences. I don't know what it is, but I really, really like the South Carolina vibe. And as I don't know how they feel about it, but as an outsider going into South Carolina from Virginia, and I know it's not that far away. And I just they just have I just like the culture. I like I feel like any of the classes and the conferences that I go to in South Carolina, especially like a lot of the young firefighters, man, they're just full of piss and vinegar, and I love it. Um, so so any of the conferences down there, and then I'm trying to give you one more that um I really can't, man. There's so many freaking good ones, but um, yeah, yeah, they're everywhere. But it'd be so hard for me to to land on one more. I think they're all doing awesome, and I I think over the years it's gotten a little bit better with like it's not so cutthroat, like they're all supporting each other, which I think is a good thing. Like, if you know, it's for a little while there it was. If I had a conference and then, you know, there was another one that popped up an hour away, it's like, whoa, whoa, like, hey man, we're already doing our thing here. You know, it should be like, no, man, how can I, yeah, how can I help you? Like, let's let's coordinate. Maybe we can offset dates so we don't compete for attendance and stuff. And uh um, but yeah, they there's so many good ones, man. Like recently I went to the beach. They the the Virginia Beach does a great job with their conference. That one's getting better and better over the years. The Virginia Fire Rescue Conference, the Fireground Commander Conference that was um that went on for several years. And henrico, Ben Martin. Have you guys had Ben Martin on the show?

SPEAKER_01 32:28

We have not, not yet.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Oh, you have to get him. Ben's squared away, dude. He ran he ran a conference out there for several years and brought in all kinds of great people, man. It just there's so many good ones. There's so many good ones. One I do want to go to. I still have yet to make it to FDTN. I've been there. I want to go there so bad. You guys have been school. I've been there. Yeah, did you go for like the full week?

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yep, it's a fire ground. But the first class they host, it's like a you do everything. Yeah, I forgot what it's called, but like fire combat or something like that. It's basically the introduction class to their additional like company engine company classes. Okay, but yeah, it's it was a very awesome training, really awesome instructors. So get on there if you can.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Another one I want to go to and I haven't made it to yet, and I've heard is really, really good is the Wichita Hot. I haven't been to that yet.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah, that's yeah. That was cool. We've gotten to know quite a few Wichita guys. It's been it's been awesome. We've had a ton of them on the show, honestly, too. It's and that they post put on a great course. Yeah, that was that was an awesome time.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

God, I'm jealous. I need to get out there, man. That's it's usually recommended. August every why am I it's August? Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Um I think it was August, something like that. So yeah, I'm not sure. I forgot we drove and it was nice, so yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah, probably August. In August, right? Yeah. Cool. Uh next one. How should we look at failures?

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Oh, that's a good one. So this is coming guy from a guy who's failed quite a bit. Um and when I say failed, I mean failed in I've failed in trying to develop somebody that I thought I could turn around, you know, like I've I've failed in kind of motivating somebody, if you will. I've I've failed at um handling difficult conversations. I've failed doing that before. I have failed in pushing projects up through my chain of command, like uh, you know, whether it's something I'm passionate about and it hits the it hits the desks downtown at the at the puzzle palace and and and it dies a horrible death, you know. Like I've failed a lot of times. Um, and it's very easy to to get to wallow in your failure, right? Like I don't know if you guys have done it. I've been 100% guilty of it, right? Like I I have this plan, I like it because it's mine, obviously, right? Like I send this plan up, it goes to my bosses, it goes to their bosses, and they just torpedo the hell out of that thing. And then I sit there and wallow in failure, right? Like, they don't get it. Why would they not do this? This makes sense, blah, blah, blah, blah. Even to the point where I might start to to pick at them, right? Like, why would they do this? They're not using their brains, they don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, they never support me, blah, blah. So it's it's very hard for us to to recognize our wins, you know, when we when we wallow in failure. And if you continue to do that, you will you will never look at the wins and the successes. And like you just have to understand in the fire department, there are things that you are just not going to do, right? There are there are things that you are just going to fail at. And if you're super passionate about that one particular thing, then by all means, like grab your flag and drive on, like, and maybe fight another day. Um, but you know, you sometimes have to ask yourself, you know, is this the hill that I'm willing to die on? Like, do I really want to put all my energy and capital and my leadership capital and maybe my credibility or my reputation on the line to push this forward? Or do I say, you know, I'll fight this another day. I'll table this till next year. I table this for the next fire chief, the next battalion chief, or whatever. You know, so I try to look at failure as the easy one's like an opportunity, right? Like it's easy to say that. Uh, it's much harder to do that, but that's how I try to look at failure. Like, is there anything I could have done differently? Did I not advocate for my project well enough? Did I did I say something in this conversation that I regret? Because I've done that. You know, did I dealing with an employee that maybe wasn't as motivated or that I was trying to turn around? Like, how did I handle that? Did I did I come at him as just a boss or did I come at him as a mentor and a coach? Like, what are some things that I did wrong? And then, you know, looking at those little failure points, like that, because this is going to happen again, right? I'm I'm going to have an employee that I'm gonna have to motivate. I'm gonna have a project or a plan I'm gonna have to provide to the fire chief. I'm gonna have a difficult conversation, like they're going to happen. And so remembering that those failures are just part of just part of growth. And it's, I think as long as you stumble forward and you remember those little things and you apply those little lessons and what I said or what I did or what I didn't say, you know, I think if you apply those into your future endeavors, conversations, development, I think those failures just serve as something that will help with your overall growth. It's not always easy to see in the moment, uh, but you know, certainly the longer that I've been in the fire department, I've I've tried to remind myself of those things, uh, but I'm not always the best at it, right? I have my days just like anybody else, where I throw my hands up in the air and I get pissed off and I don't understand what the hell these people are doing. Um, but then I sit back and I say, all right, like uh I'm resilient, like I'm confident. I uh I'm gonna I'm gonna move on to the next thing. I'm gonna see if I can repackage and repurpose this a different way, and I'm gonna have the meeting and I'm gonna build advocates and I'm gonna do whatever I can to get through this person. Like I have to look at it that way. I have to look at those failures as just a normal part of the learning process, right? Because you show me, excuse me, you show me somebody in your department who's failing a lot, I'll probably show you a person that is pretty active in the organization, that's that's willing to be a risk taker, right? That's willing to rock the boat and challenge the status quo. You know, you show me a firefighter or a company officer or chief who's like, yay, I don't ever have to worry about failure my whole career. My question to you would be like, Well, what the hell have you been doing? Like, either you have the magic power or you just been sitting on your hands your whole career because there's no way that you haven't experienced failure because it you know that that comes at the expense of risk taking and and all those things. So it's I think it's good for us in the end. It's it's not easy in the moment to recognize that. Sometimes it takes a few weeks, months, maybe even years. But um, but it could be good, it could be good fuel for you.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Awesome. And kind of the last generic question we have for you. What do you tell your probies to expect when they are uh when they get hired? So day one, what do you tell your probies to expect?

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Good. All right. I have a pretty structured day one, so this is an easy one for me to answer. Awesome. So typically what happens is you know, they show up first day, they go there in the morning lineup, and then they're typically riding the engine. So when I was a company officer, I'm I spent a little bit of time on the ladder. So if they you know, I wouldn't have a whole lot of new people on the ladder as an officer, but I got them when I was assigned to the engine as a captain. So uh first day as a rookie with Captain Sergi, we went out and they first would walk around the truck. We'd walk around the truck, I'd have they would tell me where every tool is. I would have them like they would walk around it a few times, and then once they got comfortable, I'd say, All right, this compartment, tell me what's in it, it'd be closed. And they'd say, Oh, this and I'd open it. So we just get those reps, right? So that's one thing we did. Then we go down the street and they'd take a hydrant. So we'd go through taking a hydrant, we talk about how putting the gates on and why and water supply. We'd have those little conversations, and then we would go somewhere, we'd spend all day in the district, and we'd pull every single line off the truck. They'd pull cross lays, they'd pull the rear pre-connect, they'd stretch the bundle, they'd stretch the two and a half on a commercial building. So we would spend all day stretching hose. If we were in a high-rise district, we stretched high-rise hose in the building. So that was that was um that was their first day as a as a rookie in the firehouse. They spent pretty much half the day going out, stretching lines on the engine, taking a hydrant, and then learning where their tools are. And the other thing was their responsibilities, right? If we go to a fire, you're doing this because you're in that jump seat. If we go to medical call, you're doing this because you're in that jump seat. Um, and then really after that, it's just, you know, as the evening's winding down, maybe we have dinner, we're having a cup of coffee, then we talk about some other stuff, right? I get into my expectations with them. So I sit down and have a conversation about my expectations on behavior, their attitude, their performance, uh, how they interact with the crew, their job responsibilities. You know, we have like a little Red Book task book that they're responsible for completing. I make sure that they take full ownership of that. I remind them that, you know, they are part of a team and uh it's no longer about them anymore, it's about their crew members and the the things they do, the things they don't do now have an impact on other people around them. And if they have any type of selfish bone in their body, now would be the time to have that thing surgically removed. Um, so that's one of the things I really try to drive home. And I do that because I hope that, you know, this is just the first day, like we continue to do these things, but I want to set the tone, right? I think it is so important as a company officer to set the tone for the first day, right? Like if I'm a rookie and I walk in the firehouse and the tone on that first day is eh, we'll just kind of do whatever. We don't have much planned. Here's the here's the rig, that's where your seat is, your locker's over there. Um, just let me know if you have any questions. They're gonna be like, oh, I mean, they're gonna go with the float, and maybe they maybe they find somebody who can help them out. But you know, if they don't, if they're not immediately thrust into like think of that, you know, my rook is like, hey, I show up, like it was Cat May messing around. Like, I'm taking a hydrant, I stretched the line off every truck. They're gonna go ask their fellow recruits that graduate with, hey, what did you do on your first day? Oh man, Serge or Brennan, man, they made me stretch every line off that freaking truck. What'd you do? Like, oh nothing. I just kind of helped the cook make a meal and you know, just checked off the truck and we ran calls. Like, what? So I think that I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but um, it really the point I'm trying to make is just what you do on that first day sets the tone, right? Like with sitting down and going to your expectations, with making them put lines in service multiple times, with making them take a hydrant. Like it it sends the message like, hey, there's an expectation of excellence here. Like this captain and the people that are riding this truck or this lieutenant or whoever it is, they expect me when the brass hits, you know, to do my job effectively. Like, this is not the JV squad here. Like they won't, this they won't varsity showing up here. So that was typically the my rookie's first day. And then obviously they're not with me the whole time either, right? Like, I want them out there with their fellow firefighters. I want those those fellow firefighters talking about the culture and the reputation of the firehouse and and having their own expectations too, because they're they're gonna have chats with them too. And I don't always have to be a part of those conversations, but you know. I I always hope that the the other firefighters in the station dig their talents into that that probationary firefighter too and and kind of do the same little things that I do with setting their expectations and what they expect on the truck and how to check off the truck and who to talk to. And all those things are so important that first day, man. It's it's huge. I mean, you could I truly believe that not only that first day, but that probationary year, depending on the the type of crew that that person is around, especially if they're an impressionable, impressionable firefighter and they're not self-starters and all those things, like you can really change the trajectory of somebody's career based off that first officer and that crew that they're with. I mean, that's such an impactful moment for people.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Awesome. Start setting that tone, like you said, it's just so important. Understanding what you're walking into. It's just it's gonna set that entire really probation period, if not career. I mean, absolutely see, like you said, two people start at the exact same time, but they go to different crews, not even sometimes of any fault of their own, but they're gonna right. Yeah, you're gonna you're you become a creature of your environment.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

So yeah, sets that tone and starts to develop that work ethic. You know, maybe they have it, maybe they don't. But if they don't and they walk into a situation where they're already being held to a very high standard, like hopefully they start to develop you know a sense of work ethic on their own, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Absolutely. Well, that completes all the questions that we've come up with for you. So now the last two things that we have are sometimes the hardest part for people. So we've got a question for you from our previous guest, uh, who is Garrett, Garrett Crowdy. Oh, yeah. And uh then you will have to come up with a question for our next guests. So our next guest is going to be the hazmat guys from FDNY. Okay, so they are gonna be be coming on. So if you come up with a hazmat question for them, they are, I don't know if you're if you're familiar with their their podcast or hear them teach, but I just got to uh hear uh Mike in when we were down in uh Whammer at the conference, uh the Hazmat conference in Wisconsin, and extremely entertaining. You you actually can sit there and listen to Hazmat. It's crazy, it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

That is wild.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Very, very excited to to have him on, uh especially you know at 8 a.m. doing a conference with him, and he was able to keep the whole room awake. So but the question that Garrett had for you, we talked a little bit about your book, okay. Um, or books, I should say. What inspired you to write your book?

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Okay, good. So at the time, so go back several years, I was starting to write blogs for fire engineering. So I was just kind of brain dumping my thoughts and my experiences into this blog. And and I was starting to write a couple articles here and there. And so I had a friend of mine, he came up to me. He's like, hey man, like you have a lot of stuff like kind of in your blogs. Like, have you ever thought about putting this into a book? And my first thought was, no way. Like, I I who am I to write a book? I have not been in the fire service long enough, you know. I all these things telling myself like I shouldn't do this because who am I to do that? You know, like I just didn't feel like I had the experience, I didn't feel like I had the the credibility, you know. Like, why would I do why would I put myself in that position? So I didn't do anything for probably six months after that conversation. I was still writing and you know, articles, blog entries. I was active in my fire department. And my buddy Josh, Josh Chase, he's like, look, man, he's like, you gotta, you gotta put this out there. He's like, you know, there are people. Josh was raised the same way uh way I was. We had the same captain, we had the same upbringing in the fire department. And um, he's like, you know, you have you do have experiences that you can share with other people. Like you have experience in the military, you have experience in the fire department, like you've had successes uh with with developing people and providing good leadership and failures too that are worth sharing. And so I was like, all right, what the hell? I'm gonna try this thing, man. And so I just one day sat down and I came up with some themes, you know, like I want to talk about this, that, or the other, which those themes ultimately um morphed into chapters, and I would just write, man, and I would still have the same, the same thoughts. You know, I'd be like two months into it, and I'm like, this is gonna be the greatest thing ever. And then, you know, six months later, I'm like, this is the stupidest idea. Why am I wasting my time? You know, because again, it was just that it was just that that self-doubt, like, why, why would I do this, you know? Um, but eventually I just kept at it and published it, and I got good feedback from it, and and off it went. And and you know, I still get a lot of good feedback about it. I I I am the first person to tell you that you know, that is not the best leadership book out there, it's just simply my experiences. And one of the things that I really tried to do in that book, and hopefully I did it, was and this is not to take away from any other leadership books that are out there at all, right? But like the ones that I would read, you know, I'm like, I want something like I'm a company officer. Like, how do I distill this down to practical stuff? Like, yeah, I know you need to build unicohesion. Yeah, I know morale is important. Yeah, I know that you know, it's like, but tell me how to do those things. You're like, what should I do in the firehouse? So that was kind of the goal of my book was to to share my experiences and the things that people have taught me over the years. Like, all right, I'm gonna have a conversation with people who read this book, and I'm gonna try to give them like we're gonna get down in the weeds with things they should do, things they should say, actions that they should take. And that was what I wanted to come out in the book. And and so it's out there. And you know, there's the second one now, which is a new edition, which has a couple extra chapters. Uh, I beefed up the other chapters and then added the two new ones, but that's how it started. It really just started for me kind of doing blog entries on fire engineering and writing some articles here and there. And my friend was like, Hey dude, like just you just need to put all this into one package and share this with people because you have you know, you have a message that people are willing to listen to, and and so I did it.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Awesome, yeah. Awesome. Well, that's the last are of the questions that you have to answer. Now you got to come up with the one for our next guest and a hazmat question at that it doesn't have to be hazmat. I mean, it's it's not all they do. I know they're just named the hazmat guys, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

So I'm trying to think like you guys meant to help me out with this one. So I'm trying to think like I'm an engine guy, right? Like, I ride an engine, I don't really care about hazmat. Like, yeah, like I care when it's there, and I I try to do a good job and have a fundamental understanding about hazmat. But I would say, just like the question you kind of asked me about you know, effective ways to train, I would say if I'm and this is would help me or even other hazmat people that will listen, like, how do they make hazmat exciting for just dumb engine guys or ladder guys? Like, what what cool and creative things could they do when it comes to hazmat training to make people on the engine, the ladder, you know, like more engaged and more exciting and not just show up and say, you know, all right, well, let's park 800 feet away and just wait to call the hazmat team. Like, you know, like how to get them excited about training and then go back to the first five minutes. I always like to hear that. Like, if if I'm riding an engine or a ladder, what are the things that I can do within the first five minutes to set up a successful hazmat incident? Because there's a lot that goes into that, right? Identification, research, all that, all that containment. Like, what can I do as an engine officer? What are the steps that I can take? What things can I communicate to the hazmat team, whether it's local or regional? Like, how could I get that incident going in the right way, as opposed to some things that I've seen in the past, where we go to a hazmat, we say, it's a hazmat, let's sit back and wait. And then the hazmat team comes in here and they're probably saying things like, I wish that freaking engine company would have done this, or I wish the officer would have made this decision. I wish they would have called this person already. So uh there might be several questions in there, but I I think the main one would be provide some guidance and some direction, some tips on what a first arriving officer can do that has limited or no hazmat experience to set up a good, successful hazmat operation.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

I like it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah, I'm gonna listen because that'd be good for me too.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Like I said, I I have never been more intained entertained taking a hazmat course.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

So no doubt. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

But thank you so much for for your time. Uh, the last absolutely it's been fun. Yeah, the last portion that we have is what we call the kitchen table. So um, it's kind of whatever you want. If there is something that you want to go into a little bit more, some shout-outs that you want, conferences, just any last thing that you'd like to get out there before we wrap up. The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Oh, all right, good. So I'll ask you guys is so based off the people that you interview or you do the podcast with, do you are you starting to see common trends like and like we're good at picking out problems? Uh like one of the main problems that you see in the fire service or across fire departments that makes us not unique, like what are you seeing as trends? Does that make sense? Like everybody comes on and talks about this, or everybody comes on and talks about that. Are you guys starting to notice common themes with how long you've been doing this?

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Oh, If so, what are they?

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Maybe like your top three if you have them.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

I mean, there's there's definitely been a lot of things that we share kind of every episode that we talk about. Um, and I in terms of cop or problems, the fortunate thing is there's maybe one or two of them.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Maybe that's not the right word to use. Yeah, but there's struggles.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Talk about like the generational gap, but that's that's kind of easily fixed. I mean, you've got a young department, and as long as you got the older people that that come in there, but um everything absolutely comes back to culture, is the one that's a guaranteed just universal topic as everybody talks about that because like you even said with your your probes. I mean, if you you come into a a lazy house or just uh a not, you know, a house where everyone kind of goes to their bunk room, stays, stays away, like they're just bound and destined to be a less efficient, uh a worse, we'll say, um, crew than one that you show up and hey, it's you know, it's 10 minutes in, they're finishing up their rig checks, and then they're gonna go stretch line, they're gonna do mask ups. Uh, we got you know, training to go down in the afternoon, like just things like that, where yeah, um, that definitely is one that you see across everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Culture, yeah, just creating the right type of culture. Yeah, that's good. And that starts when someone walks through the freaking door, right? And you know, and it starts with officers too. Like the officers have a choice every day they walk in the station, you know. Like that was one of the reasons that I became a company officer because I wanted a I wanted a team, I wanted to drive culture, you know, like I wanted to create this reputation that if I'm at station one or 14, like we're gonna be the best freaking city or the best freaking station in the city, right? And that's what I believed. And that that drove the culture, you know, like the things that we did go back to back to that that statement, you know, and man, that's so freaking important. And and you could do that from wherever you sit as a firefighter, it could be hard because sometimes you feel like you're on an island. But man, if you're a freaking officer, uh, you know, especially a command officer, be the damn fire chief. I mean, you can drive it right from the top, you know, and it's certainly harder to drive it from the middle or off from the side, it's not impossible, but you know, you gotta have that support too. You know, you gotta have that support.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

I think another one is mental health is starting to come up a little more and how you get that work-life balance and yeah, what they kind of what they do to help support their mental health and oh that's good, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Yeah, disconnecting a little bit more, and I'm I'm still not the best at that man, I'll fully admit it, you know. I either especially on days like you know, I'm on Monday through Friday, so I get a lot more email, you know, in my position now than I did before as an operational battalion chief, you know. So it's like I can come home and I can put my phone away and I can not read my work emails, but man, I'm just as guilty as the next guy, like looking at, oh, let me respond to this. And I need to knock that off because unless I'm on call, that's different. But there's been a couple times where I've come home and I've looked at my phone and looked at my work email and got like really fired up about something, you know, like really pissed me off. And it's like, then it's gonna ruin my freaking night. And I'm supposed to be sitting here with my kids and my wife, like hanging out watching Zootopia, you know, and here I am getting pissed off at this email. So having that ability to disconnect is is important, you know. It's it's hard to do as firefighters, especially if you're a passionate one, because it's like you just ate up with the job, you love it, like you just you're all in. But um, but man, sometimes you got to turn it off, and I think that's okay to do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

And uh oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

I I still try, you know, when I go on vacations, I try to turn it off. When I'm when I'm with my family consecutive, you know, for consecutive days, I try to turn it off. Uh, but I'm not the best at it either, man. I you know, I'm working on it, I'll always be working on it.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

But whatever people can do, man, what like you know, you mentioned mental health and like your physical health, your your mental health, whether it's going to the gym, running, fishing, like all those things are really essentially a form of meditation. You know, I go work out, I train jujitsu, like those are the things that disconnect me from from the world for a little while, and certainly from work. So, yeah, finding that balance is tough.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for for taking the time to come on to share some knowledge. Uh, it's always always a great time. And and yeah, thank you for coming on. Thank you everybody for listening and watching. I know we just transferred everything over to YouTube, and that's been doing great. So, a special thank you to everyone that's uh made that easy transition from Facebook over to YouTube. So hopefully everyone's been enjoying, and as always, don't be a shit bag.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Right on. See you guys. Thank you.